Welcome everyone for another episode of Signal and Symptoms podcast. Today we're going to deep dive into two things. Number one, how Edward Marx started his journey in digital health transformation and then move into Artificial Intelligence in healthcare.

Yeah, Junaid, thanks for having me. It's so great to be part of Signal and Symptoms. This is a very unique podcast and live streaming at the same time, so people could definitely interact and we're super flexible and agile in terms of things that what people want to hear about in the future, talk about. So it's great platform that you are the mastermind of and I get to hang out with you and Harvey and others. So this is a great tool. My journey started really young. was 16 in a medical center as a janitor. And it was a great job for a kid because this part was outpatient clinic. So it closed at 4.30 and didn't open up again until 7 a.m. So basically me and my two best friends from high school, had until we could start any time after 4.30. It just took us three hours. Anytime after 4.30, as long as it was done by 7 a.m. So for a kid, know, with sports and all the different things going on, it was a great job because it super flexibility something spoke to me about, I really wanna work in healthcare. I I was a janitor, was cleaning outpatient clinics and labs and things like that, but I just knew I wanted to be part of healthcare, because I was like seeing these offices and where clinicians worked and patients, and I was like, man, this just seems like something special, you know? And I also grew up with my mom being very sick the entire time that I was growing up in the house. And so I was exposed to a lot of healthcare that way as well. And so something just spoke to me like, gosh, I didn't even have healthcare.

When I struggle a little bit in school, not because I don't have the IQ, but I got distracted by other things that high schoolers sometimes get distracted by. And so I had to really work hard to make money to pay for school. And so I joined the Army Reserve and they said, Ed, you could be anything you want. And they gave me a list of different things, infantrymen or whatever. And there was one that said combat medic. And I was like, oh, I want to be a combat medic because that goes with what's in my heart.

So I did that and that just reinforced again this whole concept of wanting to be in healthcare. And then I graduated, I got my life together. I graduated college and I was in the army as a combat officer, but I had an opportunity to have a civilian career and I was drawn to healthcare again. And one thing led to another and I couldn't get a job because I didn't have the experience and didn't have the perfect education, but I got a job as an anesthesia tech. So. even though I had master's degree at this point, I just took any job because I wanted to be in healthcare. So was the job I could get because it was a temp job, so I didn't have a lot of competition. And so I got in, they realized, Ed's got skills. And so from there, I became the IT manager inside the OR where I worked already. And that again, just reinforced everything I wanted to do and learn about how technology can actually impact quality of care, safety, save lives. And it was like, man, I wanna do this. And then something else happened next with the birth of our youngest daughter. And again, for the sake of brevity, I won't go into the story, but it was there that without a doubt, I saw the intersection of the clinical practice with technology to save lives. In this case, my daughter's life. And it was like, dang, this is my calling. It is tech part. And I was not a tech person. So that makes it even funny of a story, just how it all works. Cause it comes down to passion a lot of times and like what your vision is.

And so you learn the tools later sometimes, which is like AI. anyways, from there, I took my first IT job and then I got successive jobs. realized, wow, I wanna be the leader. I wanna be a CIO. And so as you mentioned, I was CIO of several different healthcare organizations before I moved on to the vendor partner side as a CXO, a CEO for one firm, a chief digital officer for another global firm. And sit on some boards now for some hospitals and things like that, write, as you mentioned, some books and and speak a bit. And yeah, so I'm still very active, part of the ecosystem, traveling around the country and the world, you know, helping different organizations in different ways, talking to a lot of people like yourself, great clinicians and great technologists, bringing the two together again to save lives like your similar mission. And so that's really how I got into this whole, you know, technology realm, you know, back since my high school days. Our focus, you know, is AI. And so it's like, how do you... continue to evolve yourself, in addition to having that grit to have that determination and perseverance that matches up with your passions and making things happen is like, how do you continuously evolve? So we've chosen in part, technology, clinical and technology as our career path, but you could become obsolete within a couple of years, given the pace of change. And that indeed what happens, as you know, you've got clinical colleagues like that who don't wanna evolve and are stuck.

And that's why, know, when I go see a clinician, I've always interviewed my clinicians as you've probably picked up in that book. It's like, I want to know, are they up with technology? Same when I got on a plane, you know, I always look, you know, when you get on a plane, check this out, next time you get on a plane, when you walk into the fuselage on the main door that you're walking through, on the door jam, there'll be a small metal plate. And on that metal plate will be the manufacturing information, including the date of that airplane. And I always check that out. It's too late. I should check it, try to check it out ahead of time. It's too late. But sometimes I get in on these aircraft that are pretty old. But all I want to know, I'm fine if the aircraft fuselage is old. I want to know that those engines are updated. I want to know that the technology in the cockpit is the latest and greatest, right? It's just like that. I do the same with my clinicians. I want to make sure that they, you know, they are top of their game and I'll ask them questions. Cause I want to know. And thankfully my PCP, she was one of the first to do ambient listening and I love my interactions with her. And before I checked out my new cardiologist, you know, I did all sorts of background checks that I could and I really do. is, you know, it's like some people might look at their school. I don't care what school you graduated and you got your MD. That's awesome. But a lot has changed since then. So I want to know what you're doing since then. And it's the same with with CIOs. It's people that are leading technical. It's like a lot of them haven't changed. A lot of them are stuck in the era in which they were trained. And that's a really dangerous thing. And so sometimes people ask me a lot of questions about career advice and things like that. And I can just look and I can tell by their outputs and whether it's through speaking things that they've done or different posts or things like that, where they are, have they evolved or not. And these organizations are looking for very evolved leaders. And if you're not evolving, then you're gonna become obsolete.

And in some organizations, they're just obsolete because they haven't moved as an entire organization. Everyone in their C-suite is sort of a tech laggard. So we don't want to be that. And so I think one of the hallmarks of my career so far has been that I was always curious, right? And I think that's the key is like, you got to be curious, like what's next? What's happening out there that you should be aware of because you may have to bring that into healthcare to help lead your organization and ultimately save lives in the mission and vision of your particular organization. So that's sort of the first thing that I've always leveraged and I haven't done it perfectly. There's been certainly dips, you know, where I've sort of fallen behind a little bit and had to like run and catch up, but at least I recognize, you know, my gosh, I have a deficiency and here are some things I can do. And I imagine most of our listeners are like you and I, definitely like me where I've fallen behind. And so I've had to do things to just catch up and then get back ahead. So that happens. So there's no judgment or anything, know, especially with AI.

I think a lot of people are probably fell under the curve, you know, on the bottom side of that curve where they're sort of laggards trying to catch up. And that's okay because we're going to offer some solutions like things that we've all done to sort of bridge that gap. that's been my evolution is just generally the mindset, like whether it's blockchain and whether it's something that's overhyped and never really happens, that doesn't matter. The important thing is that you are educated about it you know about it, and you can speak to it and think about applications for your organization. And so it's the same with AI. We were talking AI many years ago. As we know, the history goes way back, so we don't need to recover the history. I remember at a Cleveland Clinic, was one of the presenters. We did this top 10 innovations every year. And I remember the one that I presented, this was like 2018, was AI.

We already were seeing it as a really big thing. Of course, again, it's existed for a generation prior, but this was the first time like we were seeing it like, you know, in daily practice, making a difference. so, and that's almost, you know, 10 years ago. And so now people are finally talking about it more generally. So it's always being curious, getting ready, learning about new things. And so I've got a few tips that we could talk about like how you might go about doing that, but that's been my journey. That's how I did it. And so the different things that I do, the first one that I advocate strongly for is you have to use AI yourself. know, too often we pontificate. People get in the ivory tower and they might read something about AI and try to act knowledgeable about AI, but when you look under the covers, they don't use AI. And it's like, and I remember the same thing happening back in mobile when I first really was was transforming myself, but learning about digital transformation and asked to lead a major organization for digital transformation.

And I got a lot of pushback from my peers and some executives. And these were executives that when I traveled with them, still used paper, you know, I could, and I don't want to go into specifics. I'm not trying to shame anyone, but they were so far laggards, but they would read the magazines or they would read online and think they were experts, but they didn't use it themselves.

And that is the best way is just force yourself. So that's what I did. And that's what everyone should do. I got a couple of the apps. I would just did some research. It's like, are the top 10 apps? And I got those apps and I started just experimenting with PowerPoints, right? I wanted to use, do something that was useful in my business. So I was like, okay, help me create slides. I write a lot. I was like, All right, let's see what something written by AI is like. What's that like? What's the prompt engineering? know, those sort of things. How can I incorporate different things like my house thermostat now, the whole system is AI, you know? And I just get involved and learn. And my wife's a clinician, as you know, and so she comes home and she has all the pajama time. So I'm like, AI, let's do it. Let's learn about how this can help you, you know, because I know theoretically, because I led this in a major hospital but I didn't use it myself. So now I'm right there every step of the way. So is use things yourself. It's amazing. that's of all the things that I might share, that is not only the first one, because it's the most important, but probably accounts for at least 50 % of everything you can do. It's just use it yourself, because what happens is it exposes you to new ideas and new thinking. And then you have these aha moments, like, yeah, what about this? We can do that. And so that's really important.

The other thing is listen to podcasts like signal and symptoms and and I'm serious I I don't know, you know again, this is no judgment I know I can come across like really harsh, but people just have to know my heart Stop listening to music that that's not gonna add any value to you all the time except for a CDC and journey. Yeah Music and I do listen to music but sometimes that's all people listen to it. So you have finite time why don't you listen to a podcast that's gonna add some value? So get some podcasts that are AI oriented to fill that gap. So whatever your gap is, listen to stuff. So I've got some gaps in my life continuously. And so there's certain go-to podcasts that I listen to, because I learn new things. And so I'm just constantly learning. It's the same with AI. So signal and symptoms is a great one, but you can look for other ones out there. The other thing is research. I've done research. I'm like, well, you know, tell, and using AI, of course is I'll do a lot of research like, what are the best applications outside of healthcare that we could use inside of healthcare? So I'm always looking outside of healthcare for ideas, because typically, not always, but typically, other industries are more advanced than healthcare, usually by three to five years. And so I always look to other industries, well, hey, what are they doing with AI? And then I think about how do we bring that into healthcare? And I've done that a lot throughout my career and people thought I was crazy, but it usually turned out pretty good that

We would embrace something that some other industry had pioneered for us. know, follow great people like Harvey and yourself, you know, on Twitter and LinkedIn. It's amazing the content that you all put out and you all have challenged me just even being part of Signal and Symptoms. You know, I'm being exposed to a lot of things that I've not been exposed to before and I'm loving it. I'm just eating it up. It's like, this is great. This is what I need. So that's another thing. It's just jump in, research, follow other people, remain curious.

Another one is books. Yeah, you mentioned books already. Harvey was part of this book, Voice of Innovation, and you'll be part of the next book. And so this is a book on AI, what other people are doing. So it's not just one person's theory. It's really like 30 different organizations. The other thing is ask a lot of questions. That kind of goes back to curiosity. As ask people questions. And I think sometimes, you know, we feel like, we can't ask a question because we'll appear dumb, we'll appear unknowledgeable. So, a lot of times we think about mentor, I need to have a mentor. So we look at someone a generation above us, which is cool, know, an older person that's been there, done that sort of thing. But you should also have a mentor that's a generation or two below you. And I've done this a couple of times formally, where I've had a mentor and a generation, one or two behind me. So these are kids, you know, these are 20s, they're in their 20s, maybe now for me in their 30s, and I'm learning from them.

They have a lot to teach me because they're digital natives and pretty soon it's gonna be AI natives, right? Today's teenagers, probably AI natives, or maybe the ones that are just being born now. But I think everyone gets what I'm saying is like, hang out with kids, ask them questions about what they're using. And they may not even use, say the word AI because it's just part of the fabric of what society is today, right? All their apps and stuff are AI, but they don't say AI, it's just what they know. So the kids are really important. So, you know, I do that with my kids.

I got one kid in financial services. I'm asking him all the time how he's leveraging AI and it's amazing what he's doing. I've got another kid in the music industry and he showed me, and this was kind of interesting, Janette, you might appreciate this. I invited a bunch of CIOs to his music studio in Nashville and he showed them like this hit song he has, he showed them, he rebuilt it from scratch. It's all AI. Maybe the last one that's really practical. And I've used this technique a few times, not, I don't know if that it was purposeful, but a little bit purposeful. And that is speak on it. When you're forced to speak on a topic, you have to be expert. Otherwise you're going to be found out or it's going to be a terrible talk. And no one wants that reputation of being a terrible speaker. So I started being asked to speak about AI. know, I'm on the board of the health system. They're like, Ed, tell us about AI. And I myself was just starting to learn, I was probably a little bit behind, you know, how we said sometimes there's a gap. I was definitely in a gap. I knew enough. I knew, you know, average amount, but I needed to know more than average as a board member and about giving my career. And so I really had to use all these techniques we just talked about to like fill that gap and then go above. And and that was one of them is like when you're forced to speak, you're forced to do the research, you're forced to ask questions, you're forced to to go look at different sources, you're forced to listen to other people, you're forced to read and does all the stuff.

And all of sudden, you start becoming expert. You're not gonna become expert just because you give a speech on AI, but it's the process that you go through that helps you. So it's just another technique is volunteer. Don't say no to something because you're like, my gosh, I'm gonna be found out. No, use it as a catalyst to say, dang, I'm gonna speak on this because I need to learn it. I want to learn it. I know it's important and I've got the skills to figure out how to become expert. And then you go and you do it and then you keep building on it.

Those are like different things that people can utilize.

So the way I look at it is that, hey, as CME is important in your life, continued technology education should be part and parcel of all physicians' lives. Now, the software is going to eat the world, and AI is going to eat the software. So it is going to be part and parcel of everything. One of the things I want to reiterate and re-appreciate is that the beauty of Ed is that, first of all, he understands that, hey, so what if you're wrong? So what if things are not getting better?

Junaid:

People have reinvented themselves in multiple areas. I reinvented myself from a new rise to YouTube now as founder. It takes time. Yeah. Be humble and keep us humble. And if you're sometimes it. Thank you so much because when you ask questions, we can answer it. helps us. Thank you for all your engagement. Thank you for coming again. Talk to you next week. Thank you.

Ed: